MHM Forum

<tommasoisuc> hi anna, welcome
<AnnaPixel> Good afternoon everyone
<angmattcottmass> how are you?
<silvialaura> hello everybody!!
<Anonymous> Belgium is on line
<silvialaura> italy is on line!!!!!
<AnnaPixel> Hi Belgium, Hi Italy, lets wait a couple of minutes to see if France, Poland and the UK join us
<Frages> Hello from Italy!!! We are very happy to speak with you!! 
<ChristineBE> We can begin with the birth of CEE?
<AnnaPixel> Yes, Christine lets begin...
<ChristineBE> 1.On March 25th, 1957, six countries sign in Rome the constituent treaty of the European Economic Community (EEC) and of the European Community for the Atomic energy (EURATOM). How do the sources of each country present the link between both treaties?
<tommasoisuc> herzlich wilkommen   
<ilseGE> Hello Tommaso, hello Irena, hello Anna, hello all!
<ChristineBE> Hi everybody! We are waiting for your answer to the first question 
<Frages> the Italian sources don't show any important link between the two traetes,but,overall,Amintore Fanfani,leader of the "Christian Democrats",the governing party, saw very positively the debate. 
<ChristineBE> According to the Belgian newspapers: After the agreements on coal and steel (SCEC), a agreement on nuclear power (EURATOM) will allow to pool the energy resources that the 6 countries need. Both treaties were linked to each other. 
<ilseGE> 1. Question to the topic EEC birth: Our sources don´t link the both treaties in a special way. They only add both. 
<ChristineBE> And in France?
<angmattcottmass> where is France??
<orzeuPL> Hello from Sopot- PL
<AnnaPixel> I don't think France has joined us yet (hello Poland
<ChristineBE> And in the Polish newspapers?
<michalPL> Hello everybody!
<Galilei-pg> hello!
<Frages> where is Sopot?
<michalPL> Our newspapers in Poland presented these two treaties within one site.
<AnnaPixel> France is here hello Marika
<orzeuPL> According to our sources (polish press) EEC is presented as factor which contribute to very deep division between block of capitalistic countries (EEC) and socialistic
<marikafr> Hello everybody - 
<ilseGE> We found as a main point that the use is pacifically.
<ChristineBE> We know that France was mainly interested in the EURATOM treaty. What do you think about ?
<michalPL> The disadvantage is continuous splitting between the western and eastern sides in Europe. On the eastern side there was not any alternative within the policy apart from the Soviet Unions' decisions
<orzeuPL> As you know polish press wasn't independent - mainly under influence of USSR   
<ChristineBE> Let's go to the second question?
<Frages> yes
<marikafr> it was just a first step for France   
<michalPL> The scepticism was addressed mainly in the context of the Western alliance becoming successful.
<angmattcottmass> in Italy the only parties which were sceptic were Italian social movement, the fascist party heir, and the socialist party.
<tommasoisuc> ciao orvieto
<ilseGE> For Germany, too.
<majoranaorvieto> buon giorno Tommaso
<michalPL> The important issue was expected lack of consensus between France and Western Germany.
<majoranaorvieto> Sorry for the delay but we had some technical problems
<majoranaorvieto2> sorry if we are late...
<Frages> no problem..
<orzeuPL> In polish press there are presented any advantages of EEC - only disadvantages. 
<majoranaorvieto2> we have some problem with computers
<ilseGE> That was one point in one of our newspapers: the relation between France and Germany could become more difficult.
<michalPL> The Polish scepticism was also strengthened by the coming correspondence between West and East Germany.
<Anonymous> hello every i had some troubles with my computer
<michalPL> I mean the question of the common custom border between West and East Germany.
<ChristineBE> Question n°2: According to your sources, what are the advantages of these treaties ?
<ilseGE> Some parts in Germany were a little bit carefully in the assessment of the treaties because they thought that the German re-union would be difficult
<angmattcottmass> in an italian newspaper the signature of the treaties is seen as a new revolutionary 1848, but without arms, the evolution and revolution are just different forms.
<michalPL> Generally we lived alongside the lack of disposable sufficient information.
<majoranaorvieto> .
<angmattcottmass> what do you think about this?
<michalPL> We didn't have a free press.
<ilseGE> Germans had special rules in the treaties: the "border" wasn´t seen as border. They used the word "inter zone commerce".
<majoranaorvieto> i think the newspaper was right and we think that evolution is better
<tommasoisuc> what about french sources?
<majoranaorvieto2> the Roma's treaties have some effects during the cold war??
<silvialaura> no,the press didn't mention anything
<ChristineBE> What do you think about COMECON,
<ilseGE> The treaties  deepened the division of both parts of Germany.   
<angmattcottmass> thanks to the birth of EEC, Europe had an important role in the world debate
<ilseGE> But we only have sources from former FRG and none from GDR. 
<michalPL> Poland's orientation before shared the Soviet point of - vide: the small and big Soviet blockade of Berlin
<orzeuPL> COMECON was an economic organization of communist states and a kind of Eastern Bloc equivalent to—but more inclusive than—the European Economic Community
<michalPL> The Comecon's foundation was mainly connected with incorporation of  Western Germany within The Western Union.
<michalPL> So, it was mainly political - more than market reaction.
<majoranaorvieto2> why in UK there aren't any press articles about the EEC??
<ilseGE> The EEC birth deepened also the division into the both blocs.
<tommasoisuc> how do French sources underline the end of the European Defence Community and the birth of EEC three years later?
<tommasoisuc> UK is not with us today...
<fredericfr> with many doubts and with cautious
<monaco> hello everybody
<michalPL> As far as I know The Great Britain was afraid of losing the British monopolies within Europe whether the importation was planned to the outside of Europe
<ilseGE> In one of our sources there was a hope of connection with UK and the consideration, that UK can take part in the European council.
<silvialaura> why are hopes and optimism expressed in the Belgian sources about England,whereas it has been left out of the European economy?
<ChristineBE> According to the Belgian press, these treaties seem to announce the end of the French German conflict as well as the setting up of a lasting peace. What do you think about?
<fredericfr> For France, The CECA did it already
<Frages> In the Italian sources there isn't any refer to UK
<cecoslovacchia> what was the relationship between COMECON and EEC????
<angmattcottmass> are there in other sources refers about UK situation?
<ilseGE> The most critical newspaper said that the relation between France and Germany become more difficult because of a difficult competitive situation.
<ChristineBE> It's time to go on with the next question (3): Do some sources express scepticism ? And what are the reasons ?
<angmattcottmass> good
<fredericfr> in France, the scepticism comes from the failure of the European Defence Community.
<ChristineBE> In Belgium, some newspapers (of socialist and communist trends) are afraid of an increase of competition, of a disappearance of small firms and of the creation of cartels (tacit collusion) by the large monopolistic groups.   
<michalPL> In Poland that failure was commented on as a weakness.
<angmattcottmass> in Italian sources there isn't scepticism but there are worries for the real collocation of the EEC
<fredericfr> there is a confusion about what the EEC will be in the GATT framework.
<michalPL> There were presented the divisions between the Unionist's orientation and Federalist's orientation within Europe.
<ChristineBE> In Belgium, some other newspapers fear a loss of decision-making powers, in fields such as agriculture for instance
<Frages> Italian sources totally ignore GATT
<ChristineBE> Question 4: How is perceived the cleavage between the countries which signed these treaties and the other ones (especially between West and East Germany) ?
<fredericfr> IN France, England's role is put in question
<fredericfr> What would be England's role between GATT and EEC ?
<ChristineBE> Question 5.Is there a lack of democratic debate within the EU treaties signed by the member governments?
<cecoslovacchia> OK
<fredericfr> since France has some oversea territories, is it a problem for other countries ?
<fredericfr> The parliament has been consulted as far as democratic debate is concerned.
<angmattcottmass> from this point of view, the splitting among pro-American Europe and pro-soviet Europe wasn't eased by the treaties which were in that moment a pro-American alliance strengthening around the USA power(N.4)
<michalPL> We feel shortage of the rational debate.
<michalPL> Our option seen within the press was mainly pro- European and pro- American, never pro- Soviet.
<ChristineBE> Question 6: Is the signature of the Rome Treaty considered as the first step toward the creation of future “United States of Europe� ?
<Frages> As we can see from Italian sources, there was much diplomacy among the states,based on a democratic dialogue and common agreements.
<fredericfr> as a new Europe but never regarded as united states
<Frages> The newspapers refer to a large debate.
<ChristineBE> In Belgium, we hoped that the economic and customs union would finally lead to a political union in Europe. 
<michalPL> In our country, we are slowly getting more and more aware of the European reality in the process
<fredericfr> the French Press was rather discrete about this  matter
<angmattcottmass> solemnity of the ceremony is the symbol of a political union hope
<michalPL> The national feelings are too strong to speak it up openly
<ChristineBE> Today or in 1957?
<cecoslovacchia>  C
<michalPL> The common pattern of discussion in Poland was closely situated towards the Europe of Motherlands
<michalPL> Now, today.
<Frages> An Italian journalist points out the ethical and political value of the event.
<monaco> there wasn't a unitary splitting among the national newspapers, in fact some newspapers put this news on the front page and other put it on the background
<michalPL> We are still afraid of losing our independent voice in Europe.
<monaco> we wrong the answer...sorry...
<silvialaura> the Rome treaty is seen as the first step for a future union not only economical but also political. the fact is confirmed by the clause proposed by Italy for the future creation of European Parliament, that is immediately accepted by others countries
<michalPL> We treat this question identically nowadays.
<ilseGE> In Germany there was a hope of a political union in most of our sources. 
<marikafr> in France, this didn't make the headlines of the newspapers
<marikafr> this was rather a report than a debate
<monaco> there wasn't unitary splitting among the national newspapers in fact some of this put this news on the front page and the other put it on the background
<monaco> we have already answered to the first question
<AnnaPixel> Yes Christine, lets go on with the 2nd topic
<NicolasBE>  If is, is this splitting bipolar (for or against invasion) or not ?
<majoranaorvieto2> yes we did observe different point of view in the newspaper according to the different political ideology
<angmattcottmass> we have got a question: why the Belgian communist party focus on economic problems, unlike the Italian one that focuses on politics?